Interview with Ruth Bertolino and Jack Williams 10-31-22
Remembering Jack
Ruth Bertolino and Jack Williams
Interviewer: Marguerite Chandler
OK, we’re recording. This is October 31, 2022. And you are?
00:08 Ruth:
I am Ruth Bertolino. My husband, Jack, and I arrived in Pennswood on September 9, 2003, when Mott was a brand new building.
00:23 MC
You were one of the first residents here. And you are…?
00:27 Jack Williams (JW)
I’m Jack Williams and I arrived with my partner Diana Deacon on January 6th or 7th in 2014.
00:39 MC
How many years were you and Jack married?
00:43 Ruth
It would have been 70 years on May 23 this year (2022), but it was 67 years when he died.
00:52 MC
Jack, How long did you know Jack Bertolino?
00:58 JW
From the time I arrived. It was at a dance, I think. And he was manning the bar along with John Silver. And I looked and I said, “Well, these are the guys I’m going to be seeing a lot of,” and I certainly did.
01:15 MC
And so, what was your relationship with him (Jack Bertolino) over these years. You were a fellow bartender, a fellow Bocce player?
01:23 JW
I think the first experience probably was in the musical that was run by Thelma Neufeld. Jack was an experienced hand. I didn’t understand what exactly his role was because whatever needed to be done, he was there to give a hand.
Then when Jack got this unexpected call from CEO Ben Hoyle asking, “Would you want to put in a putting green?” I took an interest. He was encouraging me taking a role and I did. I found the contractor and worked on the design. And in the case of the putting green, it was in the year 2015 that the call came from the administration that wasn’t expected, even though there had been a Putting Green/Bocce Committee for a long time. But for some reason the administration thought it was time for a putting green. Maybe it was for marketing purposes. I don’t know. But we accomplished everything that fall, and in the spring of 2016, we had a putting green.
02:55 MC
Wow. But before the putting green was the bocce court. How did that happen? How did that come about? The bocce court?
03:06 Ruth
Well, it goes back to probably 2004. We had only been here a year or so. And Jack met Gloria Smith. And Gloria Smith was a wheelchair person as a result of having polio when she was probably in her early 30’s, a young mother with three children. And she revealed to Jack that she had bocce balls in her apartment that had belonged to her family. They used to play I guess in the yard or whatever. They didn’t have an official bocce court and she said, “Wouldn’t it be great if we had a bocce court here?” Well, that’s all Jack needed to hear. The bug was in his ear. He formed a committee, and they got going on it; probably took I don’t know how long. But I think it was finished in 2011.
04:13 JW
And the committee was called the Bocce and Putting Green Committee. Can you explain why that was?
04:22 Ruth
I guess because there were people on the committee who wanted a putting green more than they wanted a bocce court.
04:33 MC
Is that right? Was that Ginny Schmunk?
04:35 Ruth
Yeah. It was a combined committee.
04:38 MC
Okay. So, who formed the committee? How were those people chosen for the committee?
04:46 Ruth
Well, I guess Jack selected them, I don’t know. Or they volunteered one way or the other. I’m not sure. But they had a couple of engineers who were residents. Yes, residents. We were all residents.
05:02 JW
Can you remember the names of people?
05:05 Ruth
Colin Smith? Ralph Halliwell? I can’t remember. Todd has a list of them.
5:07 MC
Well, we can get the list of the names later.
05:19 Ruth
But they would go visit other communities such as ours and look at their bocce courts.
05:27 MC
How many do you think they went to? How many other communities do you think they went to?
05:31 Ruth
I’ll guess three or four.
05:35JW
Okay, so Folkways was one. Do you remember any of the others?
Ruth
I don’t.
05:51 MC
Okay. Not important. And then what happened next? Where did the design come from? You said it wasn’t a regulation size bocce court?
05:57 Ruth
Well, I guess first they had to decide where it was going to be, how long it would be and how wide it would be. So, they investigated different areas of Pennswood.
06:13 MC
What were some of those?
06:16 Ruth
One was across from the A-building where the dog run used to be.
06:22 JW
Was there opposition to that?
06:25 Ruth
Yes.
06:27 MC
And why was their opposition to that as well?
06:28 Ruth
Because people that lived in A didn’t want to look at it or hear all the terrible noise. And then they thought it would be nice to have it near the Passmore Center in the recreational area. So, they looked at the courtyard between A and B, right outside Passmore. And there were strong objections there about having it because of noise and unsightliness, et cetera, et cetera. And they considered putting it below where the patio is now….
07:08 MC
The patio for the dining area
07:11 Ruth
Where the dining area was. It would have been layered so that they would have two courts like a terrace. And that, they discovered, would be very costly. So then eventually, they ended up in the courtyard where the croquet court was. And then they, I guess, I’m not sure, but they must have contacted outside sources to get estimates as to what it would cost, et cetera. And eventually, Drew Mason said, “Oh, gee, I could do that.” And he had the technique with the shells that they ground up.
08:00 JW
oyster shells.
MC
Oh, is that what it’s made of? Oyster shells?
08:04 Ruth
Well, the top is. Underneath, I’m not sure what it is. So, it was designed. And as I pointed out before, it’s not the official length. I’m not sure what the length is of a traditional bocce court. It’s a little bit shorter, but for us senior citizens, that’s perfect. And because of Gloria and her inability to stand, they insisted upon having an opening, which we call a “gate” in the [wooden] frame around the court.
08:48 Ruth
…an opening in the frame where it can be opened out, and anyone in a wheelchair or walker or any kind of assistance that they need can play. And that was sort of Jack’s motto: “Anybody can play bocce.” And we did have people that were handicapped in a way, I don’t like to use that word, but they were able to get on the court and play.
09:14 MC
And did.
Ruth
And did and they enjoyed it.
MC
So, we have had this really robust program for quite a while. And you know, would you tell the story again about what happened when Jack died? You said you were in a tournament?
09:34 Ruth
Yeah, it was a playoff. When they set up the bocce tournament, they had two leagues, the American and the National. And I think we were the American, and we had tied with two other people. I can’t remember their names.
09:54 MC
doesn’t matter.
09:56 Ruth
Anyhow, it was two men.
09:59 MC
And it was you and Jack who were a team?
10:01 Ruth
Yes. We had a play-off to see who would compete against the other league. And it was in the morning. And I guess we’d played a couple of do you call them games? No.
MC
Rounds?
Ruth
Rounds or whatever. And all at once, since I was at one end, and he was at the other all at once I saw him go down. And I thought he had stepped on a ball and just tripped and fallen. But by the time I got there, he was gone.
10:41 MC
He had a heart attack. So, he died playing bocce. In the most active possible way, you know, given his life and all the things that he was involved with. Wow! Hard for you. Hard for the whole group! I mean, you had quite an audience.
11:05 Ruth
There was an audience. There were probably 30 or 40 people there. Everybody was stunned, of course. And anyhow, I won’t go into all the gruesome details. It was a shock.
11:23 MC
But since that time…..
Ruth
It’s resolved in a way, I guess.
MC
You said that you came here to live.
Ruth
Right. And to die. And there you go.
MC
And to live every day.
11:37 Ruth
Right. And he sure did. He left his mark.
11:48 MCD
Let’s talk about Jack. You said he was president of the New Jersey Education Association.
Ruth
No, he wasn’t president. He was Director of Field Service.
MC
Director of Field Services for NJEA.
12:07 Ruth
Which meant that there were quite a large group that worked with him, under him; and different offices throughout New Jersey; to help better the lives of teachers and improve their lifestyle as much as possible. He spent his whole life helping others in a way.
12:33 MC
He retired from that, but then you said you didn’t move to Pennswood right away. There was a gap of….?
12:39 Ruth
Probably 1994 to 2003. What is that? Nine years…
12:46 MC
Nine years when you did lots of traveling. You were very active? Skiing and biking? Hiking, you mentioned. Traveling all over the country and all over Europe.
13:02 Ruth
Right. And Asia, we went to China, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand. He wanted to go everywhere. I was almost afraid to say, “Oh, that sounds interesting,” because then he would be on the phone or the computer, and the next week, we would have tickets. My favorite saying that Jack would say was, “I like going down the driveway, and Ruth likes coming up.”
13:32 MC
Coming home! He was a real adventurer. He was a pretty active guy before he got here. Then how did he become so central to the activity here at Pennswood? I mean, what was the first thing he got involved with here?
13:55 Ruth
Well, probably the Dance Committee.
13:57 MC
The Dance Committee with Ruth? Ruth Peterson?
MC
But you said Ruth Peterson came to him. So how did she know to come to Jack? Did he talk a lot at community meetings?
14:08 Ruth
He met her and talked to her. She had a sense of what he was like, I think, and what he could do. They became very good friends.
14:22 MC
The Dance Committee was to start what kinds of dances? Was it square dancing, or all kinds of dancing?
14:29 Ruth
A little bit of everything. But mainly it was based around some theme of some sort. And they would have all kinds of decorations and Jack would take pictures of everybody that came. After the photos were hung up and displayed for a while, the residents would take them home.
14:48 JW
Might I just chime in? He also took pictures of all the new residents.
14:52 Ruth
Yes. Oh, that’s another activity. I forgot about that one.
14:56 JW
He was the one in the Biography group.
15:01Ruth
He took all the pictures. He took the pictures, and I would place them in the albums. I was in charge of the albums for about 10 years, and he would be taking pictures and …
15:15 MC
He met everybody.
15:16 Ruth
He met everybody. And he loved it. He loved it. He also loved the memorial services because he would talk to the families. He liked people. He was a people person and knew how to do it. He shared his gift.
15:35 MC
And people obviously were drawn to him. They knew that if they wanted to get something done, they should come and talk to Jack. First, there was the Dance Committee. And then you mentioned Thelma’s group.
15:51JW
Oh, the musical review.
15:53 Ruth
The Play Readers.
MC
Was it the play readers first?
15:57 JW
It was what he called the Musical Review.
Ruth
Well, that was part of it.
JW
Was it acting besides the play reading?
16:05 Ruth
That was Thelma’s group that were the Play Readers, but at the end of the year, she would have this musical revue, too.
16:12 MC
So how many plays a year did she do?
16:15 Ruth
One or two. I guess.
16:18 MC
One or two plays. And then in addition, she did a musical revue at the end?
16:22 Ruth
I have a whole list of those if you ever want to have it.
16:26 MC
Yes, I would like to have that information.
16:30 Ruth
Tapes showing us performing.
16:34 MC
Wow. You mean like videotapes or audio? VHS tapes? All these parties were Halloween parties?
16:46 Ruth
Well, they would have a theme of some sort.
16:51 MC
St. Patrick’s Day. Black and white. What was Black and White?
16:57 Ruth
It meant dressed in black tie if you had a tuxedo. People used to dress up here, you know.
17:06 MC
Talk about that for a minute. What was the reason people dressed up? Was it just for parties or was it for birthday nights?
17:13 Ruth
No, when you went to dinner, you dressed up. The men wore a shirt and tie.
17:17 MC
Jackets?
17:19 Ruth
Ladies put on their nice clothes. That was tradition when we came.
17:26 MC
For dinner every night? And then for birthday night people came dressed up.
17:31Ruth
That came later. I don’t know when that got started.
17:35 MC
Birthday night.
17:39 Ruth
That was a big deal too.
17:41 MC
Yeah, I remember people getting really dressed up for birthday nights. It was an occasion to wear their nice clothes. Then there was the musical review and the Play Readers. And then after that was bocce.
18:00 JW
Oh, remember that he was an officer.
18:03 MC
Oh, that’s right. He was he was PVRA president.
18:06 Ruth
He was also on the corporate board later…not too much later actually.
18:18 MC
Was he on the PVRA committee first?
18:21Ruth
He was PVRA president.
18:27 JW
He was probably on the board before that.
18:28 Ruth
Probably, I don’t know. In 2005 and 2006, he was President. But then he was a member of the corporate board not too much longer after being PVRA resident.
18:43 MC
But the corporate board is like for three years.
18:47 Ruth
And the presidency is for two years.
18:49 JW
Must have been sometime between those two because they wouldn’t overlap.
18:52 Ruth
I’d have to look it up.
18:56 MC
You said he was PVRA president when Karen Lehman was here as the CEO.
19:11 JW
The wine came before that. Well, let’s see. CEO Nancy Spears was here with the wine.
19:19 Ruth
The wine started when he was President.
19:23 JW & MC
There was a transition overlap. The time overlapped the 2 CEO’s. That is what it sounds like.
19:30 Ruth
I don’t know the exact date.
19:34 MC
But with the wine situation, you said that there was great opposition to it. But also, obviously a lot of people wanted it. The CEO and the corporate board were opposed to it.
19:49 Ruth
Yes, they came up with a statement. That would have been 2005 when Jack first became President. He received the letter the day he became PVRA President from Bob Anderson (Bob Anderson was then President of the corporate board) saying that the board had met and decided that according to Quaker principles, etc., they weren’t going to consider having alcoholic beverages.
20:25 JW
What happened after we got the negative?
20:30 Ruth
Well, he formed a committee.
20:34 MC
And what was the name of the committee again?
20:43 Ruth
Oh, the Ad Hoc-Wine-with-Dinner Discussion Committee.
20:53 MC
And there were how many members on the committee.
21:01 Ruth
There were 12 members on that committee, six of whom were Quakers. He did a survey, not a petition, of all the residents.
21:45 MC
Do you remember roughly what the proportion was; like, was it 50/50?
21:52 Ruth
I don’t recall. But you had three choices, either you agreed with going along with them, or you were against it, or you didn’t care. I think there were fewer residents who were against it or who didn’t care.
22:10 MC
There were people who didn’t care. You’re saying that’s a big group? And then there were people who really wanted it. And so in between people were having what did they call it in their in their apartments…?
Ruth
4:45’s
MC
And what was a 4:45?
22:27 Ruth
Well, you would go to somebody’s apartment and drink hard liquor or whatever you wanted. And then you’d go to dinner.
22:35 MC
And so usually, the 4:45’s lasted until…
22:39 Ruth
Five o’clock, or I don’t know, six o’clock. Dinner must have been later…
22:44 JW
And probably the alcohol intake was greater!
22:48 Ruth
That was Jack’s principle. He said, “Do you know that drinking on an empty stomach affects you more than going to dinner and having a little sip of wine with your food while you’re eating?”
23:01MC
So how did they determine that there wouldn’t be hard liquor in the dining room? Just wine? Or beer?
Ruth
They [the corporate Board] wanted nothing.
23:14 JW
They weren’t promoting anything. They (Jack and the committee) were only promoting wine with dinner. Nothing else.
23:20 MC
No beer, nothing.
23:23 Ruth
I think they did allow beer later. The original proposition was wine with dinner.
MC
And how did the decision get made? As I understand it, the decision was that people could have wine with dinner if they shared it with everyone at the table.
Ruth
I never heard that.
MC
Oh, Okay.
23:50 JW
Because of that experimental period…
23:53 MC
Please tell me more about that.
23:57 JW
Oh, I wasn’t here for it.
24:00 Ruth
Well, it’s just a short period actually. I mean, the first night all things went very smoothly. And Nancy spears accepted it. Bob Anderson also. But look at where we are today.
JW
But tradition says that they never ended the experimental period. We’re still in that. Because there has been no official action taken.
24:26 Ruth
But there was opposition. I remember one man saying that if anybody came to my table with wine, I would get up and leave. You know, there are opposing people always, always, no matter what the issue is. Can’t ever have everyone be in agreement. That would be pretty unusual.
24:50 MC
This is true. But there has never been an issue, right?
Ruth
Never. There has never been an issue. Look where we are now! Pennswood has a liquor license. Jack would faint if he knew that!
MC
We will see how that goes, but it was obviously a major transition for people here.
25:19 JW
Shortly after that Nancy Spears ceased to be CEO and Karen Lehman came in. You might want to talk about Jack’s interaction.
25:32 MC
What was his relationship like with Karen Lehman? He was the PVRA president.
25:38 Ruth
He tried to be supportive of all the administrators. But he also understood the antagonism that was going on.
25:51 JW
Antagonism was present. Explain what happened and why.
25:54 MC
The antagonism was caused by the “moment of silence,” you said.
25:59 Ruth
That was one issue. Instead of getting the feeling of the residents, she just went ahead and did things.
I guess that upset some people, because there are all kinds of religions here, and those that aren’t religious. Residents just felt that it was being forced upon them. It shouldn’t have been done. She just got off on the wrong foot.
26:29 MC
And she never recovered. She wasn’t here, but a year or two years. Was she asked to leave? Or did she just resign? Do you know?
26:39 Ruth
I have no idea, but I would assume that she probably was asked.
26:46 MC
I don’t know a lot about it, but I had heard that.
26:51JW
They had a search committee, and they didn’t find anyone. They finally named Ben Hoyle to be Interim CEO. He had been the Treasurer.
27:03 MC
CFO.
27:05 JW
I don’t know if he was called interim or not.
27:07 MC
He was an interim because that’s when we came. Before he might become CEO, before they made the decision to make him permanent, they asked him to do a lot of training. I think there were some requirements. One of them was that he needed to become more accessible and more available to the residents and to…
27:36 Ruth
Be a better treasurer.
27:39 MC
He was a better treasurer. He wasn’t a people person. The fireside chats were a result of the need to communicate with the community. They (the Board) basically said you need to be able to talk and connect on a regular basis with the residents.
28:04 JW
I understand that when Jack came on the corporate board that at some point, the corporate board was moving deliberately slowly, and Jack wanted to move faster. He got a so-called “woodshedding.”
28:25 MC
“Eldering” is the Quaker word.
28:28 JW
Well, I got the same kind of treatment in a way. I was taking people around to see different putting greens, looking at contractors, and I got a letter from Ben Hoyle. The letter instructed me not to get ahead of us. In effect: “Don’t go so fast.” But they went fast anyway, so it all worked out.
29:01 MC
But the putting green … let’s go to that for a minute. You had a committee also or was it the same committee?
29:09 JW
The story begins with the name: the Bocce and Putting Green Committee had always been maintained by Jack intentionally, but there seemed to be no effort at all by the administration to have a putting green. and suddenly, he gets a call.
29:29 Ruth
A great many people were requesting it really.
29:32 JW
But then Ginny Schmunk circulated a petition, and a lot of people signed up for it. Time went on and then Jack got a call. The administration asked: “Well, would you like to have a putting green? We think we can go for it”. And that started it. I don’t know how I got involved, but I certainly got involved.
Ruth
That was because you are a golfer!
JW
I was sort of Jack’s lieutenant. We went right at it, and we changed it. But when it came time to decide where we were going to put it, Jack led us out the door. We didn’t go to court A or B. He took us right down next to the area between the bocce and the croquet courts. He said, “Here’s where it’s going to go.” Obviously, that was because of his experience….
30:39 MC
Due to all the opposition to all the other sites?
30:41JW
It ended up as a beautiful setup.
30:46 MC
You mentioned that there’s a clubhouse. Could you tell us about the clubhouse?
30:53 JW
Well, all I know is that it is a part of the structure of Ingram Building. I didn’t know it existed until I became involved with the putting green. The clubhouse is just a storage [closet] for the croquet court, for the mallets, balls, and wickets.
31:16 Ruth
Tell us about the availability of the mallets.
31:24 JW
One of the problems is that the closet is some distance from the croquet court ,and you had to have a key to open it up. And once the putting green came in, Todd Wayman had the idea of having a locker located out there, and Todd designed it. Oh, it’s a wonderfully executed little shed. Oh, it’s not a shed. It’s a storage cabinet, but it’s an all-weather cabinet, out in all kinds of weather. It houses on one side the mallets and balls that you need for croquet and on the other side are the putters and the balls that you need for putting. The cabinet is always open, and anybody can come at any time and have access to the items needed for croquet or putting.
32:14 MC
Who built the cabinet?
32:17 JW
Bob Sawyer and the administration worked together very nicely. It was a combination thing. The Administration put in footings and located it in a very nice way. I must say the administration and PVRA work well together sometimes just as they did during this project…like the Miniature Golf event [we did recently with the Newtown Friends School students] that I ran, and I had to modify the putting green to be a miniature golf course. It took some doing, and in three weeks’ time the administration and PVRA got together and made it happen.
32:55 MC
Now the putting green is artificial turf. How did you determine that it would be artificial turf? Did you go around and visit different places?
33:05 JW
Yes, I did—with Jack Lane and sometimes Jack Bertolino. We went to several places. We went to Brandywine and to Folkeways. I went over to New Jersey and saw some places. I have a report on every one of the places we visited in my records.
33:37 MC
You went around to different ones.
33:40 JW
Then we looked around for vendors and, lo and behold, there was one whose address is in Newtown. He had the best product. He had a six-hole putting green at his home that we visited. We recommended him to the administration, and they chose him.
34:08 Ruth
He did a good job.
MC
Was it paid for by the administration? Not by the PVRA, but the administration?
34:15 JW
It was a $25,000- $30,000 deal to put it all in. I invited the pro from this little township club, Middletown Township has a golf course and a PGA pro. We had him come over and give a lesson. He said this is the fastest course in Bucks County. He said any pro getting ready for a tournament would like to come here. We had it a little too fast. The slopes look very modest, but you get out there and you try to putt, and it’s challenging.
34:54 MC
How many holes are there?
34:57 JW
Oh, it’s a nine-hole course. I pushed for that. And I got it. They originally wanted to go with a course that was a good bit smaller. I pushed very hard for nine.
35:09 MC
So, was it used very heavily?
35:15 JW
More so before COVID than after, but we’ve had just one great successful event here last week. We couldn’t get the service guy to come in. There’s an annual service, and he didn’t get around to servicing it until September 2023.
35:43 MC
What did you have to do to transition it to a [Miniature Golf Course?
35:47 JW
We had to figure out how to do that. We ended up with a drainage hose that is used for sump pumps. It comes in 24’ lengths. It’s polyethylene hoses, which are inexpensive, and the administration bought 25 links of it for us. And I strung them out and made the holes that way. Then a combination of Elaine Daniels on one hand and Sally Marrington made up a very creative pair. I want to tell you that they took over, and we decorated all the holes?
36:34 MC
Is it still there?
36:36 JW
All the decorations are gone, but I have pictures. Sally has a bunch of pictures.
36:43 MC
Great. You had the kids participate. How did that idea come about to have the Newtown Friends School children come over?
36:52 JW
We have had the school children over many times, and we did some training with an adult, with the residents. When Amy Keiper-Shaw suggested at the last community meeting that we are going to be emphasizing more exercise, it suddenly occurred to me in the middle of the night that the putting green was not getting much use. Why not make a miniature golf course. The thing is that two thirds of the population here are women, at least two thirds, and even with men either golf is not their thing or well, I’m no good [at it]. But if you say “miniature golf” the answer is YEAH! And it doesn’t change the putting challenge very much at all. So are we ended up with 22 fifth and sixth graders and 11 active putters. Ruth didn’t come this time, but she and Jack always used to be the old reliables.
38:13 Ruth
I’m not too steady [on my feet] any more.
38:17MC
You had a tournament with the kids.
38:20 JW
Well, we had a match with the kids–and the pumpkins were the prizes.
38:25 MC
And everybody got a pumpkin, I hear.
38:27 JW
Oh, no. Actually, as each team who won a hole, they got a little pumpkin. And then the team with the most holes got the three big pumpkins because there were three people on a team. I didn’t grow them, Sally Marrington purchased them.
38:48 Ruth
But you grew the watermelon….
38:53 MC
Well, that’s a subject for another day. I’m going to interview you about the garden.
39:01 JW
This is a very, very successful year for the garden.
39:04 MC
That is amazing because it was so dry.
39:08 JW
People watered. People watered very heavily. I watered almost every day.
39:14 MC
Wow. Now there’s a commitment!
39:17 JW
Well, you drive up. I don’t walk. Can’t walk very far. It’s a lovely time to be out there when the sun’s going down.
39:30 MC
You watered it at night?
39:34JW
I watered in the evenings, but most people water in the mornings.
39:38 Ruth
I enjoyed some of your tomatoes…
39:43 JW
I know. I went out [to the garden] yesterday, and the tomatoes were delicious. We still have tomatoes that are ripening.
39:54 MC
There was a whole pan of tomatoes down at the end of Mott. Were those your tomatoes? Nobody knew who it was, but somebody put a whole tray down at the end of Mott the other day.
40:05 JW
I have 13 tomato plants. I have a lot of tomatoes and they are still going strong. Now they’ve been picked, and they are in our laundry room.
40:22 MC
You’ve got a lot of green tomatoes ripening, but that’s for another day too.
—end—